An Exchange with Geoff
What a guy! He has kept me amused, thinking and
writing for half a day. This is how the back and forth went. Geoff is blue and I am red.
Geoff’s honourable surname is Boyes. Hence a boyesillion. His grandmother, my
Auntie Gert in the exchange, was a Beeby, my grandfather’s sister. She married
the estimable Albert Boyes.
I tried to comment on your blog but it's not easy. So here is a comment
on your blog of 17th Sept.
You say "the force of gravity is defined as: F = mg, where m is the mass
of the body and g is a constant vector with an average magnitude of 9.81 m/s2.
Why not a nice round 10.00 m/s2? Science has no answer to this question."
I'm afraid the answer is simple: If a Metre (a French invention) had been
appropriately defined as being slightly smaller than one ten millionth of
the distance between the North Pole and the equator, then the acceleration due
to gravity could have been exactly 10m/s2.
The same applies to many scientific parameters. However, certain constants such
as Pi and e are inherently independent of any measurement system - apart from
the number base in use.
It's
probably my fault; but you have missed the point, which is that there is nothing in
the Laws of Science which determines why g is 9.81 m/s2. It could have
been anything. But if it were anything other than 9.81,
we wouldn't be here. Convention measures it in metres, for sure, and convention
could have chosen furlongs or cubits; but in either case the furlong value or
the cubit value is exactly equal to 9.81 m.
The
probability of the actual value being exactly what it is is 1 in a boyesillion.
Gravity is only one of many constants which are similarly fine-tuned. Any of
them could have been different and Science has nothing to say
about why they aren't. Science has discovered what
they are. Science can tell us why other
values would give you a non-star-producing universe.
Have
you ever looked at the Numberphile videos (qv) on YouTube? My maths is not up
to understanding them; but I love 'em all the same.
It's
good to hear from you. I am creaky but otherwise well. My house has been
re-decorated and substantially de-cluttered. I am having it valued next week;
but I'll probably stay in it for another year or so.
I'm
going to Barcelona for Christmas with Gabriel, Carrie and Clara. There I shall
meet Leo, my grand-nephew for the first time. I'm going to Singapore, where I
shall meet my fifth grandchild, and Melbourne in the new year.
I rather think you might disappear up your own
fundament with that line of thinking! You may as well ask why Mount Everest is
27,940 feet high or why water is composed of two elements. Or why is that
particular pebble on top of Scarfell Pike.
I rather suspect what you are wanting to hear is
that it is all part of God's plan.
Why are you creaky? Doc Geoff's prescription is get
down the gym three times a week. Then drink beer regularly. Does you the power
of good and gets your bowels working properly - the key to good health.
Where are you going to move to? Why move anyway?
BTW, I discovered we have Gerty's 1942 hymn book
and I have started to play some hymns on the piano. My fave is "Eternal
father" and the 23rd Psalm. I can't stop singing them. Is this a sign?!
Should I be worried?
Be afraid; be very afraid!
The reason for
the current height of Mt Everest is something that can hypothetically be known.
The actual values for the momentum of the tectonic plates, the mass and
composition of said plates are things that can (in principle) be known. In
fact, we can predict the height of Everest a thousand years from now. India is
in a slow-motion crash into Asia. There are too many variables (including
'chaotic' stuff like wind and erosion) for us to make precise predictions.
However, we can say that the collision of the plates is forcing the surface of
Nepal to rise. 'Scrunching' is going on.
Hydrogen
and Oxygen react to form water because their atomic structures are what they
are. Science tells us so. You built that cairn on Scarfell Pike. Or it is
another result of scrunching? Science can pronounce (in principle) on why the
plates float about on a sea of magma. But Science is silent on why Gravity
is what it is. There is no Scientific reason. My belief is that there is a
reason. but that Science will forever remain silent. That cannot be known
scientifically, even hypothetically.
What
I want to hear is neither here nor there. I wield Occam's razor. It looks like
a plan. That it is a plan is the most parsimonious explanation.
'Why, Daddy, why?' We can answer 'because, because, because' but not an
infinite number of times. 'Daddy, why does g have the value it has?' 'Precious
Child, no Scientist knows; Theologians have an answer. Even brainy Uncle Geoff
doesn't know.'
I
love this house. Have you ever seen it? But the stairs are very steep. If and
when I move, it will be to a one-bedroom, one-level flat, preferably in this
very convenient part of South Manchester.
Ciao
PS
a boyesillion is roughly 7.19 x 10^27, I think, if you assume 1 inch is 2.5
cms. Sums not my stongest suite. Actually, I'm pretty sure that I have got it
wrong. It is an unimaginably big number.
PPS
I have just received A Simple Koran, edited by Bill Warner. Did you
know that the standard Koran is not organised thematically or chronologically
but by length of sura? I smell a conspiracy.
OK, then in the same division as gravity, light travels at 180,000 miles
per second. If it didn't the universe would be a lot different. In this
respect gravity is nothing special. How about the Boltzmann Constant, or
Coulomb's Constant. There are a stack of them. Electricity is attenuated by a
resistor according to a formula. Pressure times volume is a
constant. These are all just facts of physics. And they all have massive
ramifications for how the universe works.
I'm now singing "Praise him Praise him" endlessly. I think
it's a sign.
It
may be a sign. I hope so...
You are reinforcing my argument. Is it the
influence of Gert's hymn book?
But
(in passing) pressure times volume doesn't involve constants. Boyle discovered
a law which relates one to the other. This is one of the things that
Science does tell us.
However,
the other constants you refer to, the speed of light, the Boltzmann Constant
and Coulomb's Constant are, like the force of Gravity and the strong and the
weak nuclear forces and all the rest of the 'stack' are factory
settings. Science has discovered them but cannot have anything to
say about why they are what they are. Not so with Boyle's Law which does tell
us why the pressure of a given quantity of gas has increased - it's because the
volume has been reduced.
‘Massive
ramifications’ is an understatement. In several cases (Gravity is the one I
know best) the ramifications extend to billions of galaxies and trillions of
stars versus no galaxies and no stars.
The
fine-tuning argument for God's existence is one of the most persuasive. Proofs
belong to Mathematics. If Sam demands a proof for God's existence I will have
to disappoint him. I can rehearse an argument which persuades me. This may not
persuade him. Perhaps this says more about him than it does about the argument.
If he introduces a rule which declares that only physical causes can be
admitted in a discussion about the nature of the World, I will accuse him of
being like a lawyer who bases his defence of his client on the proposition that
there is no such thing as guilt.
Anthony
Flew, for decades the most famous atheist in the World, changed his mind when
confronted with the work of the intelligent design guys. This, I submit, could
happen to any atheist who abandons the absurd metaphysical rule that only
materialist/naturalistic explanations have any validity.
I
think things are going my way in Philosophy and (possibly) in Physics. Logical
Positivism is dead. It collapsed when it was demonstrated that its central
tenet, namely that only propositions that are supported by sense data (ie
Science) had any meaning, was shown to be a proposition that could not be
supported by sense data.
Two
books that seem to me to be very persuasive are: Nature's Destiny by
Michael Denton and The Privileged Planet by Jay Richards and
Guilermo Gonzalez. They are both books which make a long cumulative argument
based on data from Astronomy, Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Another book
which uses the same technique of accumulation is Darwin's The Origin of
Species.
The
following scarcely even amounts to an argument: Theists (Peter Kreeft, John
Lennox, Jay Richards, Keith Ward, William Lane Craig, William Dembski, Michael
Behe, Alvin Plantinger et al) are all so much more winsome than the opposition,
who are a dyspeptic crowd.
My
dear Cousin, I have enjoyed this exchange very much. So much so that I propose
to make it into a blog post. I won't upload it until Monday. So you have time
to forbid it.
To be honest, I doubt if many scientists would even give it any thought.
To a scientist if it's 9.81 then it's 9.81 and what's the point of delving any
deeper? They are simple souls.
They simply use these constants, which are all listed in the standard
work "Kay and Laby", as part their work - e.g to make sure that the
space shuttle lands at the right place etc etc. They are not likely to have had
any thoughts about metaphysics - that is for others such as your good self.
Would a cabinet maker ponder over the origin of his chisel? Does an
accountant agonise over why we traditionally count to the base 10? Of course
not.
To be honest with you, and I appreciate that I am no great scientist -
although I did the course, I couldn't write a sentence on metaphysics without
resorting to Wiki. As for teleology ..........!
I look fwd to your blog
On a completely different topic, how on earth will a bunch of celibate
old men attending the synod in Rome come up with anything meaningful about sex,
abortion, families etc? Surely, your attendance and contribution would be far
more valuable. The whole thing is just laughable and frankly, bad PR.
Thank
you for telling me about Kay and Labey.
Honest
journeymen scientists, preoccupied with landing shuttles, are not simultaneously
doing metaphysics. Nevertheless, they all make metaphysical assumptions all the time. Dawkins does it. You do
it. And I do it, though I make even less claim to being a scientist than you do.
Your
last paragraph is a classic fallacy. To recast it (fairly, I think), it amounts
to this: only sexually active men and women can possibly come up with anything
meaningful about sex, abortion and families. This is a bit like saying that only
embezzlers, rapists and muggers should be listened to on the subject of crime;
or that only software engineers have useful opinions about what constitutes a
user-friendly or cost-effective application or that only teachers’ views on
education should be respected, Victims, users and parents (and children and
employers) might have some insights.
Perhaps a rugby spectator sees some things that are not apparent from within a
scrum.
Anyway,
this is going up now. Thanks for your contributions!